Blag

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Ten Ways PMS Raped your Baby

Since hating PMS seems to be back in fashion again this week, I thought I’d list ten of the stupidest claims that I’ve seen of late in the hope that some of the FUD might die down:

1. PMS slows down new features and prevents innovation

Actually, once new ebuild-usable features end up in Portage, they very quickly end up in a published EAPI. The reason you can’t use all the fancy new features in EAPI 3 that you’ve all been waiting for for so long is that Portage still hasn’t implemented them. In addition, we’ve gone from “EAPI 3 will be ready for Portage within a month” three months ago to “there’s an 80% chance EAPI 3 support will be ready in Portage by the end of the year“.

Time-wise, EAPI 3 has been waiting for Portage for six months and before that, for the Council to come to decisions for two months. The total overhead imposed by PMS was around four days, and those four days weren’t holding up anything else anyway.

Still, at least there’s a long way to go before EAPI 3 takes as long as it took Portage to get use dependencies

Similarly, PMS isn’t to blame for profiles not being able to make use of new features. People who are telling you this are probably thinking about an undocumented Portage feature that isn’t in PMS and that isn’t supported by other package managers. This feature could very easily be in PMS, but there’s been no interest from the Council in retroactively adding it to EAPI 3 or in doing an EAPI 2.1 just to include that feature. The feature almost certainly will be in EAPI 4, but work on EAPI 4 isn’t going to start until Portage is done with EAPI 3. So again, PMS isn’t the reason you can’t use it.

2. PMS or EAPI is about ebuilds, not profiles

This one’s from people who haven’t bothered to read the opening of PMS, or who haven’t been paying attention to the Council.

PMS covers ebuilds and the tree format, including things like profiles. The aim is to cover everything necessary to produce a package manager that can use ebuilds (except possibly VDB, which probably shouldn’t be necessary for ebuild support but currently is…).

EAPI is used to indicate the rules used to handle ebuilds, and also profiles following the Council accepting Zac’s proposal last year.

3. PMS imposes an Exherbo agenda upon Gentoo

Exherbo doesn’t use PMS or Gentoo EAPIs.

4. PMS imposes a Paludis agenda upon Gentoo

Again, no. There’s no feature in any EAPI that’s there because of Paludis. Every feature in EAPIs 1, 2 and 3 was either requested by a Gentoo developer or included to make things easier for Portage. To get into an EAPI, features merely have to be vetted by the Portage team and the Council.

5. PMS is only used by Paludis anyway

Nope. PMS is used by both Portage and Paludis, as well as a number of third party libraries and utilities which don’t support full package management operations (things that need to compare two versions, for example, need to use PMS), and it was also used by Pkgcore.

Saying that PMS is only of use for third party package managers is like saying that the HTTP specification is irrelevant for Internet Explorer.

6. PMS stops other distributions from doing things

Again, no. Other distributions can ignore PMS entirely. Doing so would of course be a horrible idea, as all the people who wrote websites to work on Internet Explorer 5 found out, but that’s their decision to make. A much better option would be for those distributions to roll their own derived EAPIs, which, as happened for the Gentoo KDE project’s kdebuild-1, could be added to PMS. That way they are guaranteed that any undocumented features they rely upon won’t break with the next release, as well as avoiding complaints from users who want to use a different package manager, thus avoiding the problems people who wrote Internet Explorer 5 specific code rather than following the HTML specification encountered.

7. PMS stops Gentoo from deciding its own features

PMS is run by a Gentoo developer and approval of new EAPI features is handled by the Portage team and the Gentoo council. For that matter, the PMS team has never rejected a single feature for inclusion in a future EAPI.

8. PMS introduces red tape

No, the previous Council introduced red tape, primarily because a couple of Council members refused to read any submissions more than five minutes before a meeting. Had the Council used the two weeks between meetings to read over and state their opinions on the EAPI 3 feature list, EAPI 3 would have been approved within two meetings rather than dragging on for months.

Unfortunately the current Council doesn’t seem to have improved, with at least one member showing up to a meeting having not read the agenda beforehand.

9. PMS imposed stupid ordering on metadata files

There’s a tendency amongst certain people to blame PMS for stupid or arbitrary rules. A typical example is to moan about PMS because it says that EAPI has to be on line 15 of metadata cache files. Quite how PMS is to blame for a decision that was made before PMS existed, and that was made because line 15 was the first available cache line when EAPI was introduced as a metadata key, is completely beyond me. Similarly, the rules for handling leading 0s in version numbers is Portage’s fault (although ultimately it’s Perl’s fault), as is any other format gripe you care to name.

10. PMS will stop me from using my favourite feature in configuration files

PMS doesn’t discuss user configuration at all. Handling of user configuration is left entirely to the package manager.

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4 responses to “Ten Ways PMS Raped your Baby

  1. Steven Oliver September 16, 2009 at 12:14 am

    What on earth happened to pkgcore? Their source repository on their website appears to have not been updated in at least 6 months. Most of it appears to have not been touched in years. Have you won the package manager cold war?

    • dagger September 16, 2009 at 8:45 am

      _Personally_ I think paludis won PM cold war around 2 years ago. It’s active development and reach features are quite ahead of competition. There are still some areas where it can improve (holly grail resolver), but it’s getting there.

    • Ciaran McCreesh September 16, 2009 at 3:29 pm

      I think the reason Pkgcore lost, and that Portage is struggling so badly, is that neither managed to attract a decent sized team of skilled developers. I guess it’s a combination of their leads lacking the necessary social skills to get such a team and the codebases being to horrible to work on.

      • ferringb September 17, 2009 at 9:02 am

        Comments of this sort actually are why I’m pretty disinterested in gentoo package management- it’s hard to hold an interest when anything you attempt is immediately ripped on, typically with specious claims.

        Add in that via you generating a bit of a cult of personality leads to tools latching on to pkgcore- and annoying the hell out of me via their idiocy getting me dragged back into troll wars.

        End result, one finds other things to do that are of interest. Primarily paying work, frankly (at least when dealing w/ assholes for RL work I’m getting paid for the trouble).

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