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Paludis 0.64.0 Released

Paludis 0.64.0 has been released:

  • Support for Gentoo old-style virtuals has been removed.
  • The ‘accerso’, ‘instruo’ and ‘appareo’ clients have been removed in favour of ‘cave’.
  • ‘cave resolve’ now has ‘if-same-metadata’ options for ‘–keep’ and ‘–keep-targets’, to take care of all those times when Gentoo developers ignore policy and change dependencies without a revbump.
  • Dependent IDs now have their dependency type (e.g. ‘build’, ‘runtime’) shown in the reasons output for ‘cave resolve’ and ‘cave uninstall’.
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10 responses to “Paludis 0.64.0 Released

  1. Anonymous June 20, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    So, is there a doc now how to use cave instead of appareo? I used some alias for appareo before, and then suddenly it stopped working. It didn’t even cross my mind to look again how to setup, read manual page and similar so I switched to ebuild manifest. This is what bothers me with paludis, I use it for years I think but I also didn’t saw doc for switching from paludis to cave client… I don’t even want to learn paludis internals and what not, just want to use it, as a user. I think this is something that has to improve, I have a friend that also use paludis and have same problems…

    • Ciaran McCreesh June 20, 2011 at 6:34 pm

      man cave

      • Anonymous June 20, 2011 at 7:06 pm

        It used to be man paludis, now is man cave, next will be RTFS, that was my point, I want to use it, not constantly relearn it. How about some care for users? There are many users of paludis, if I know personally a few of them then there must be many of them. I read on your blog once about idea for emerge compatible client (similar commands etc.), I wish something like that will happen.

        • Ciaran McCreesh June 20, 2011 at 7:14 pm

          No, it’s never been RTFS. There’s always been user documentation, and there always will be — being able to provide much clearer user documentation is one of the reasons behind the switch to a modular client. And one major client change in six years is hardly “constantly relearn”.

          • Anonymous June 20, 2011 at 7:35 pm

            Switching from paludis to cave was a relearn, you are right, that was not constantly, but I had appareo working, then suddenly it doesn’t work (I can’t follow every changelog, release notes etc.), so it was easier to just use ebuild command, now I should use cave for that, but how? Again, read a confusing man page. Then, cave “resolve”? Took me a while to understand, ” Displays how to resolve one or more targets.”, I am sure You understand because you wrote it, but there are many commands I don’t even understand what is supposed to do…Take a look now at man cave, it says “The front-end to a number of commands”, and then you have some core commands and bunch of SEE ALSO, where to go from there, what to use, what man page to read?!
            I am not bashing paludis, I use it and will continue to use it, but now it looks like it is meant for C++ developers only, but it can have many more users if just a tiny little bit more user friendly…

            • Ciaran McCreesh June 20, 2011 at 7:47 pm

              The reason we dropped the noconfig clients was consistency: appareo had a completely different configuration system to cave, and people routinely got confused by it. Moving everything to cave means we now have a single configuration behaviour and a single client behaviour. As for the man pages, they’re only confusing or difficult if you don’t read them properly; everyone I’ve encountered so far who has complained about the cave documentation has complained because they skimmed over half of the text and missed all the important bits.

              Honestly, if you’re struggling with ‘man cave’, you may be better off buying a Mac. As Unix stuff goes, it’s nothing complicated or special.

              • Anonymous June 20, 2011 at 8:04 pm

                I was trying to make a point that paludis right now is NOT a user friendly, error messages are not user friendly, and that with just a couple more sentences instead of “Paludis x.xx is released” you can help users understand what is going on, and you suggest that I should buy a Mac. Lets leave it there… No point to argue, you should decide if you want to develop it for users or for yourself.

                • Ciaran McCreesh June 20, 2011 at 8:19 pm

                  Paludis is extremely user friendly. It’s just that it doesn’t make the mistake of aiming for having everyone as a user. If you’re finding that Paludis isn’t the right tool for you, then you should find a more appropriate tool.

                  • Anonymous June 20, 2011 at 8:38 pm

                    Did I said that I use it for years? I just looked, I have configs from year 2007 in /etc/paludis… Did I said I will continue to use it? And I think I am not a granny at the computer. Is it too much to ask for a couple of words, “appareo have been removed in favour of cave, before you used this command now you use that command” ?
                    Do you think all gentoo users that use portage are grannies that can’t read man pages? Why can’t you except the positive critic? I think I understand now why gentoo devs couldn’t agree with you…

                    • Ciaran McCreesh June 20, 2011 at 9:15 pm

                      There is no direct mapping between the old clients and the new ones, just as there is no direct mapping between emerge and cave. You need to read the documentation to decide what to do, and we can’t tell you. Which is the thing: Paludis doesn’t tell you what to do. It provides the relevant options and documentation for you to make an informed decision as to how you want to do things. If there were a single right answer to the issue then we’d just do that and not require anything from the user at all.

                      And no, you’re not providing positive criticism. You’re throwing a hissy fit because someone moved your bike off the street and into the bike shed. If you want something changed, you can provide patches or a detailed description of what you think the problem is and how you think it could be fixed. What you don’t do is provide anonymous, specifics-free anecdotes, absurd claims like “next you’ll say RTFS”, and vaguely worded nonsense about some mythical group of users who have never appeared on IRC, in mailing lists, on the bug tracker or anywhere else.

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